An online chat I had with my Palestinian former-friend and former-peace activist whom I met on a peace making board made me wonder though. This guy, who used to tell me how he is pro-peace and against Hamas, bought into all of their propaganda, obviously. Angry (which I can understand), he informed me that he’s next step is to join up as a suicide bomber. He then promised death to all Israelis, and erasing Israel off the map… yada yada yada.
More surpsigingly, he actually tried to convince me that Hamas will be able to do that with their qassam rockets. Quite dramatically, he annonced that a grad rocket was being launched form where he was that very minute, heading towards Ashkelon. I think he was disappointed when I didn’t freak out over one more rocket.
I asked him if he doesn’t realize that in a battle between qassams and F-16′s, the odds are not in favor of Gaza. His reply was that the “true leader”, Nassaralla, will beat Israel for them. I then pointed out that Hezbulla isn’t exactly getting involved, to which my chat partner responded with “then Iran will do you in”. Whatever.
I actually tried reasoning out with him, with the following argument: “Let’s say your end goal is indeed destroying the State of Israel. What’s the point of trying to do that now with Qassams when it’s so obviously not going to work? Why not work towards some form of temporary peace and try to strengthen your country, your economy, your society, then see about destroying Israel 20 years from now?” That was me trying to think as an anti-Israeli Palestinian, see. “Think about it,” I suggested. He refused to think though – “Now is not the time to think, now is the time for war. We are willing to die.”
Well, I gave up. Honestly, I really hope this guy does not represent the majority of Palestinians in Gaza. Cause, if this is what people over there are thinking, if this is what Hamas is thinking, then they must the worse players of strategy games ever. Not seeing more than one step forward at the time, not being able to plan any long-term strategy, and not being willing to actually think. Forget chess, forget monopoly, forget any intelligent board game – according to my former-friend over there, the name of the game is “let’s bang our head against the wall and see which breaks first”.
on Jan 16th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
wow a peace activist and think this terrorist way? so how terrorists think then?
you were a friend to that guy?
see why i think you leftists are cancer?
believe me who gonna wipe israel off the map is leftists not ahmadi najad.
An Egyptians last blog post..غزة – دارفور – Gaza – Darfur
on Jan 16th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
I second that wow.
I would have given up on the conversation long before you did.
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 2:55 am
I did my last diary entry for the BBC World Service the other day. On the website, you can listen to what I said as well as how my Palestinian counterpart in Gaza responded. It’s so interesting, because on the one hand, he states that he is against the rockets into Israel, but later on, he mentions how Hamas is part of them, and how the rockets they fire are homemade and hardly any Israelis were killed during the eight years that the rockets have been fired. I just don’t know what to think or feel anymore.
Liza Rs last blog post..In Gaza, there are little boys just like him…
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 4:43 am
I think I can relate to how you feel, Liza. I think my general sentiment is that of bewilderment. I just can’t figure out these kind of people. Even the ones that say they don’t support Hamas end up trying to explain their actions to some degree or another.
Honestly, I give up on trying to understand Gazans.
Remember the sketch in Eretz Hehedert about how the word “Regi’a” replaced the word “peace” in the lsraeli discourse? Not sure how to translate that word even. Calmness? I think a Ceasefire is the closest equivalent. Anyway, they hit on something there. Even in the Israeli left there is little hope for peace with the people in Gaza – we’re just hoping to get to the point where we don’t shoot each other, but other than that – just leave us alone guys.
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 10:15 am
It is sickening to realise that in a free country the medias lie but just not talking about the real issues, the real videos, the real tapes. It’s all made up to serve the interest of the bully.
I listen to PRESSTV and Al-Jazeera live from my computer in Canada everyday and i witnessed this inhumane agression on innocent people, stuck in an outdoor prison camp, nowhere to go, nowhere to hide, unarmed but shot at by the jewish bullies day and night wothout a stop. Israël never respected the negociated 3 hours of daily truce to give time to the civilians to get water or food. Somme have spent 1 week in their homes, too afraid to go out, no water, no electricity, no food.
Is this possible in our day and age that we treat people worst than animals live on tv and that the world doesn’t know about it ?
Oh, i forgot to tell you, soldiers with dogs attack civilians !
Israël fired on UN ambulance, destroyed UN compounds containing the complete stocks of food and medicine, their workers were also killed and hurt.
Israël should be punished for mass murder, it’s leaders put in jail and thrown out of the UN because it never obeided a resolution and it is clear form thei past 60 years of lies that thet will continue lying and cannot be trusted.
Irrational and inhumane Zionism must be denounced and stopped. People in the world are fed-up with the israelis.
After 60 years of stealing land and bully around the previous owners to make them leave I personnaly believe Israêl should be dismantled for good and give the land back to the people the jews stole it from.
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 10:26 am
…Honestly, I give up on trying to understand Gazans….
This is a dishonnest remark, sorry.
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 11:20 am
It’s as honest as it gets. Just because you get them, obviously, doesn’t mean others do. Explain to me why they do why they do, if you can understand them.
I find it funny that you choose to decide that the media of the free world is all lying and that the propaganda channels you are hooked up to are telling you the truth. Ever considered the possibility that you are the one living under a stream of propaganda? I don’t even need the media to tell me what’s going on – I hear things from the ground. I know who’s using which tactics, who’s using human shields in the most debase barbaric manner. And leave the poor dogs out of it – they are trained to detect explosives and save human lives there. They only attack civilians in your mind. Seriously, do you really think the IDF would need dogs to attack civilians with??? Just use common sense and you’ll see what dogs are being used for – to sniff out explosives.
I didn’t steal this country from anyone. I was born here. So were my parents. My grandparents? they were deported from an Arab country and forced to leave their property behind. I am not sure why I’m even arguing with you… you seem to be brainwashed beyond the point of any rational debate.
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 11:52 am
It’s been proven without a doubt that this accusation of Hamas human shield is completely false.
On the other hand, we (I) have videos that proove that the israelis soldiers are using human shields, children most of the time. If ou want me to post them, just ask !
Where do you want the warriors of Palestine to defend themselves ? If israel was attacked, where would they fight ? In a field specially build for war ? No in the attacker city, like the palestinians do.
Don’t tell me you get news from the ground. No israelis are aloud in Gaza, neither the journalists evene worst, the medical teems are refused entrance. Tsahal turned back, trucks of food, ambulances even a ship was sent back. The palestinians are living in an outdoor concentration, even the Catholic Pope confirmed it. Are you going to deny this, is the Pope a liar ?
While the Israelis are killing civilians, children and women, they don’t want witnesses that’s why they refuse journalists in Gaza but, there are still journalists palestinians who are not dead yet and they report live and we are able to see the massacre.
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Worst than all of these abominable crimes, Israël is firing prosphorus bombs, that burn people and doctors are unable to help the person that goes on burning until she dies.
The ameriacn taxpayers are not innocent.
It is their tax that pay for those mass murders and their governement is usin Gaza as a a testing battlefield to experiment the effects of new bombs. Horrible.
As I talk to you, Israël are stil bombing like crazy. Why if there are truce discussion ?
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Well, i don’t know if your people on the ground know about that but, a few minutes ago, a UN school was bombed by the israelis. 2 children died and 14 people.
Of course, israelis will say there were terrorists there and other lies to excuse the killings of children.
Be honest Israeli Mom. Would you bomb a school knowing there are children there ? Monsters do that, not humain beings !
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
You tell me decembre, would you shoot from a school where there are children? This is what Hamas is doing. Hamas can and does shoot rockets from olive plantations for example. When they shoot from schools it is because they choose to, not because they simply could not find any other space. Stop kidding yourself. There are plenty of videos showing them literally grabbing babies and children, brutally too, just so they can cross the street without the IDF soldiers shooting them.
You can insist the entire world lies to you, if you like. If you insist on keeping the shroud over your eyes, then this argument is going nowhere. And yes, there are plenty of Israelis inside Gaza now, if you haven’t noticed. Spare me the propaganda – I don’t buy everything the Israeli or international media is saying, but I do know that my husband isn’t lying to me. There is no comparing the cynical tactical way Hamas is using civilians as human shields with anything Israel is doing.
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Can we accuse The New-York Times on lying now ?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/17/world/middleeast/17israel.html
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Source : http://www.globalwebpost.com/farooqm/study_res/einstein/nyt_letter.html
Letters to the New York Times
December 4, 1948
New Palestine Party
Visit of Menachem Begin and Aims of Political Movement Discussed
TO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES:
Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the �Freedom Party� (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.
The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin�s political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.
Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin�s behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.
The public avowals of Begin�s party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.
Attack on Arab Village
A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants � 240 men, women, and children � and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.
The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.
Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model.
During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.
The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.
Discrepancies Seen
The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a �Leader State� is the goal.
In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin�s efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.
The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.
(signed)
Isidore Abramowitz, Hannah Arendt, Abraham Brick, Rabbi Jessurun Cardozo, Albert Einstein, Herman Eisen, M.D., Hayim Fineman, M. Gallen, M.D., H.H. Harris, Zelig S. Harris, Sidney Hook, Fred Karush, Bruria Kaufman, Irma L. Lindheim, Nachman Maisel, Symour Melman, Myer D. Mendelson, M.D., Harry M. Orlinsky, Samuel Pitlick, Fritz Rohrlich, Louis P. Rocker, Ruth Sager, Itzhak Sankowsky, I.J. Schoenberg, Samuel Shuman, M. Znger, Irma Wolpe, Stefan Wolpe
New York, Dec. 2, 1948
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
I thought you were the one who didn’t believe the international media?
That’s a great article in the NY Times there – thank you for the link. Which part of it did you not understand?
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
To clarify, I was talking about the first link here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/17/world/middleeast/17israel.html
Read that one – since you gave it. It explains things pretty well, I thought, giving a well balanced picture.
Not sure what your point is with that long quote of a letter to the NY Times? I have no wish to debate Menahem Begin with you here. I never supported his views and I don’t see what that has to do with Gaza.
Oh wait, I think I get it. You are trying to bring “proof” of some sort as to why Israel should be “dismantled” as you so eloquently call the destruction of me and my family. I guess that’s why you can be sympathetic to Hamas then, since you agree with their declared cause of destroying Israel.
Sorry to disappoint you, but for various reasons, we kinda prefer to go on living. Anyone who doesn’t accept that the Israel is here to stay, is just banging his or her proverbial head against a wall. It’s here. It’s a fact. Now either move on and let’s see how we can live together in peace, or keep on and bang your head against the wall. Just don’t be so surprised when your heard hurts.
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
What bothers those who watch all this unfold is the absolute dysfunction of the Hamas political machine. How on Earth can the party who espouses killing every Israeli alive begin to think for a moment that somehow things will improve for them when they are literally surrounded by those they advocate the deaths of? Is a Big Brother coming?
In what rational galaxy do people act in these ways towards those who could lessen the impact of war? If a dog is pissed off, do you step on its tail? When you are laying under it?
In order for any sense to be made of any of this, what will be required is reasonable people looking for compromise. It is the way the world has operated for centuries. Is there some new idea alive in our world where this is no longer true?
I just don’t get it, either. I think Hamas is frankly being exposed as small-minded and ludicrously insane, personally. The only people who suffer are the civilians under their care. I am quite positive the guys calling the shots are sipping tea in Lebanon or somewhere. Arafat made millions off Gazans by pilfering the largesse of the UN and others. Now the “believers” are equally bad – but it’s not over money. It’s more cynical yet. This time people die.
on Jan 17th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
…. I have no wish to debate Menahem Begin with you here. I never supported his views and I don’t see what that has to do with Gaza…..
Yeah right ! You want me to believe that the past is not the reason why this is going on in gaza ? That’s how it started, criminals like Begin started it and Sharon continued etc…
By the way, the long letter denouncing the state of Israel was signed by Albert Einstein, a well-known jew.
on Jan 18th, 2009 at 2:07 am
1. The letter is about Menahem Begin and his party.
2. The past is always the reason – but as I posted before, we have different narratives about the past. I don’t agree with yours and you don’t agree with mine. Do we have to keep on killing each other because of that? That is a choice to be made in the present – not the past. Israel is here to stay – that is a fact in the present.
The question is what do you do now. Do you support Hamas in their delusions and encourage them in leading their people towards death and suffering? or do you encourage the sane voices among Palestinians, like Abu Mazen, who try to lead their people into a better future.
By the way, if you don’t mind me asking, are you a Palestinian? and where do you reside? it’s easy to encourage war when you don’t have to pay the daily price for it.
on Jan 18th, 2009 at 8:15 am
….and where do you reside? it’s easy to encourage war when you don’t have to pay the daily price for it…..
I encourage war ??? Where do you read this in my posts please ?
I am anti-war, totally. I think war is the total failure of democracy and the democrats. I am ashamed of the hypocrisy of the democrats around the world not able to stand-up against this israeli agression.
Only two men where brave enough to stand against Israël and it’s mass-murders : Chavez & Morales….both native , leader of their country, who, as you know, have lots of experience in the suffering fields !
The ONLY reason for this war is the politician’s failure to negociate, it’s unacceptable.
Israel is a mock-democracy just because of that, in war since 60 years and always trying to put the blame on others, it’s neighbours witch isrelis treat like second class citizens since they don’t have the same civl rights. This is not real democracy but Democracy For The Few
Palestinian land was stolen by murdurers. If Israel doesn’t give it back, it will pay and pay, never will it be secured.
By the way, I’m French Canadian from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. Have a good day.
on Jan 18th, 2009 at 8:19 am
The sound of Gaza burning should be drowned out by the words of the Israeli writer Larry Derfner. He says: “Israel’s war with Gaza has to be the most one-sided on earth… If the point is to end it, or at least begin to end it, the ball is not in Hamas’s court – it is in ours.”…
The Independant : Johann Hari: The true story behind this war is not the one Israel is telling
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-the-true-story-behind-this-war-is-not-the-one-israel-is-telling-1214981.html
on Jan 18th, 2009 at 8:52 am
Palestinian doctor’s daughters killed during live Israeli TV report
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Palestinian_doctors_daughters_killed_live_on_0117.html
on Jan 18th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
As I explained before, Israel is here to stay. From this point the Palestinians/Arabs have two basic options:
1. To accept that and work towards peace (which many individuals and countries have done and are doing – the PLO people for example).
2. To insist that Israel should not exist, as I assume you do (“Palestinian land was stolen by murdurers. If Israel doesn’t give it back, it will pay and pay, never will it be secured.”) by which you encourage war.
Quite simple, really.
on Jan 18th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
Pure irony:
Someone who lives in Montreal, Canada ripping a strip off an Israeli whose man is actually involved in the war. It makes this comment almost hilarious:
“and where do you reside?”
Man, the things you can see on the Internet these days. Probably another country club Marxist, spouting the talk from academia.
I also happen to like both Chavez and Morales, myself. They are changing the paradigm in Central and South America, but it is slow slogging, dealing with the US Empire and they have plenty of resources at their disposal. Gaza and Palestine in general does not have abundant resources and must use their heads to get anything done. You’d think they could use world sympathy to actually quiet things down and make the world focus on them. If they did this the right way, they would surprise themselves with what they could achieve, IMO.
But what happens instead is that they are so hell-bent on violence, staying in office and religious fanaticism, they waste what could be all that good credit in the shape of rockets. What an amazing waste.
on Jan 22nd, 2009 at 12:54 pm
….Gaza and Palestine in general does not have abundant resources and must use their heads to get anything done….sreve
They have oil fields beneath the ocean facing Gaza, about to be robbed by the zionists too.
I woudn’t be surprise the war was about just that, steeling the oil fields, preventing Hamas to put their hands on the money and buy arms like the jews do.
on Jan 22nd, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Oops, careful, you slipped there and called all Zionists Jews – you don’t want the antisemitism to be too obvious, remember?
By the way, not only are there no oil fields, there isn’t even an ocean facing Gaza
on Feb 10th, 2009 at 6:55 am
Dear Mom,
I find ur blogs & opposing threads by chance. Ur identity label inspires peace & friendship. However, ur family r locked in a vicious political trap of which u may hv to resign to what is being cooked for – Independent & Recognised Israel State. Nonetheless, its shameful that u r also voting to violence via credit to ur ‘government’. Weizmann & Herzl created this for ambition purpose feed by greed. It was the stumble of British Empire caused all this. Begin, Sharon and many others worked their way up the government ladders to protect themselves meanwhile robbing riches to their lot.
Pity, that ur kind can’t do much changes nor understand it. When u stop pushing for the better, u allow the thieves and robbers to become the law.
I remember the game when I was a kid. “If the thief is the police, then what woukd happen?” I hv been studying ur ‘nation’ conflicts for 20 over years. I cannot understand how u think by being ignorant, u r holding historical right & staunchily stubborn reading Twisted Facts into Reality Truth