Read the postings again then you may get it – though its highly doubtful – right now you, like those who lived in privilege under the apartheid regime in South Africa, are just unable to even comprehend what is going on around you. And like them you may find that the tide of events turns markedly and rapidly and not in favour of the privileged. Situations which have been built on so much injustice can be and often are swept away. Nothing is forever. Not even Israel.

But fortunately most of the privileged of Israel have two passports and dual nationality so they can always move away.

That doesn’t mean that doing PR for a country is wrong. And if you look at the word “Hasbara” it really reflects on the innate Israeli sense that we’re being attacked in the PR arena by people who don’t actually understand what’s going on here. I’d say your kind of responses are a good justification for the need of Hasbara – no offense

“For more than a year, Israeli diplomats have been talking openly about their new strategy to counter growing global anger at Israel’s defiance of international law. It’s no longer enough, they argue, just to invoke Sderot every time someone raises Gaza. The task is also to change the subject to more pleasant areas: film, arts, gay rights – things that underline commonalities between Israel and places such as Paris and New York. After the Gaza attack, this strategy went into high gear. “We will send well-known novelists and writers overseas, theatre companies, exhibits,” Arye Mekel, deputy director-general for cultural affairs for Israel’s Foreign Ministry, told The New York Times. “This way, you show Israel’s prettier face, so we are not thought of purely in the context of war.”

Let’s tell everyone how “normal” we are and how “normal things are in Israel” – ring any bells?

For full text
http://tinyurl.com/nvycgk

(I certainly don’t agree – if it’s good enough term for Mandela and Tutu to use to describe (Greater) Israel, given that they know more about apartheid and how it works than both of us will ever know – then its good enough for me. And contrary to your perceptions, I think they are wise enough to COMPLETELY understand the situation in Israel – what a put down!)

Quote continued: …..to use, then really, I have no argument with you. I accept the rest of your points; it was the terminology that bothers me because those using it are the same people who tried to push “Gaza as a concentration camp” slogan, in an attempt to spread an inaccurate perception”

From this comment you would think that Israel was not in the business of “spreading inaccurate perceptions” You should listen to Mark Regev and the propaganda he spouts and the perceptions that the Israeli PR machine tries to promote worldwide.

Israel is a fully paid up member of the “spreading inaccurate perceptions club” – if not THE leading player.

I think you are bothered about the terms “apartheid, concentration camp and racist state” because there is no way they you can admit that you are part of promoting that system and indeed benefiting from it?
They are terms also very close to the bone when it comes to the treatments which were dished out to Jews in Europe and it’s hard to even imaging that Israel is now playing effectively on a similar if not the same turf. What goes around comes around as the saying goes!

I am aware (although maybe not full aware, hard to be from my position), of the inequalities Arab citizens suffer from. For the purpose of this post, I wanted to show that legally they have the same stand – to explain why it’s not apartheid.

Since you agree apartheid is not the right term to use, then really, I have no argument with you. I accept the rest of your points, it was the terminology that bothers me because those using it are the same people who tried to push “Gaza as a concentration camp” slogan, in an attempt to spread an inaccurate perception.

And with all due respect to Tutu and Mandela, and I do have a lot of respect for their struggle, I don’t think they really understand the situation here.

http://blog.ryanlinstrom.com/post/179079400/semantics-apartheid-ethnic-cleansing

Israeli Mom, I guess I just have two main concerns:

#1. I think your analysis of Arabs living within Israel is not very accurate, and I think you would be hard-pressed to find an Arab-Israeli who would agree with this comment:

“Arab citizens have full legal rights. They live side by side with Jewish citizens.”

I know people who lived in Israel for many years before they noticed the inequalities just down the street.

#2. Your main focus in debunking this definition seems to be to uphold the original meaning of apartheid. i.e.:

“To compare the discrimination against Arabs within Israel with the racial segregation of apartheid is disrespectful to the struggle against apartheid in South Africa.”

I think it’s a noble goal, but given Tutu and Mandela’s comments comparing Israel and South Africa, it seems unfounded. They have no trouble calling it apartheid. Why do you?

That’s a sincere question, btw. I’m generally interested in why these terms are so contentious, since I feel that they were defined in such a way as to be used to prevent future injustices.

There is a reason “Apartheid” is an Afrikaans term – meaning “separateness”, in fact. It is because it was their own singular brand of discrimination based conveniently on race alone. Even a scholar such as myself (not) can figure that out. In the US it is termed Racism or even “Jim Crow”, (based on a shameful legal ruling maintaining the separation of blacks and whites in the public sphere) which is the equivalent. In the late 1800′s and early 1900′s, entire black populations of some Southern towns were completely wiped out – killed, hung, shot, etc – in literal (unpunished) riots by whites, angry at the vote counts electing the black people with the temerity to run for office – and then getting elected. In modern America, things have advanced – an attribute of patience which seems to be the one central theme running through the entire edifice of equality accomplishment.

The argument over Apartheid is a useless argument, based more on emotion than sense. The West Bank is absurdly unfair, yes. And Gaza has her products and services interfered with by border guards from both Israel and Egypt. Meanwhile, especially in Gaza, the politicians who determine their voice in the world acerbate the problems with some really stupid behavior. And the Israeli’s get mad and elect the guy with the most hate, just to satisfy a more base emotion which only serves to widen the probability of achieving a state solution.

Does anyone see a theme here? It’s going to take compromises from each side to keep this boil on the Earth’s forehead from oozing for another set of decades. Prospects look grim, judging by some responses in here.

We need to step back, now and then, and ratchet DOWN the hate. In fact, there’s nothing to add to that.

My point here is not to prove the term “Apartheid” within Israel (I think it applies more correctly to the OPT), I just want to point out that your comment about “… Arab and Jewish citizens having full rights within Israel…” is disingenuous, if not completely false. There are ethnically-discriminatory policies and practices that are being supported or propagated by the state of Israel, and that’s in the “democratic” part of the state. I hate to be inflammatory, but perhaps “racist” would be a better term?

Now, the territories under military control…? That’s another story altogether. One that I have no problem labeling Apartheid.

Discrimination is not apartheid. You’re calling a diamond a spade, if you like the analogy :p Way too much discrimination in Israel, and racism too, but it is NOT apartheid. To say that it is, is just a propaganda ploy, not much different than calling Gaza a concentration camp. It’s people using very strong images from a totally different context to drive other people into action when they don’t really understand what’s going on.

Still, you don’t have to look to the OPT to find instances of ethnically-based discrimination. Palestinians pay over 30% of Israeli taxes, and see only 8% reinvested into their communities. Have you driven through Issawiya, Silwan, Ras Al-Amud? The contrast between levels of civic infrastructure from the French Hill to Issawiya (under a mile apart) is shocking. Someone already mentioned the report of under-funding schools in East Jerusalem. How about building permits? ID cards (which must be renewed every year by Palestinians and don’t allow them an Israeli passport nor to vote in Israeli elections. Marriage laws are discriminatory as well, since a Jew or an Arab Israeli can marry whomever they choose, provided they are not from the West Bank or Gaza. Checkpoints, while they may be necessary for security reasons, lead to racial profiling over true security. Granted, this happens generally with security forces around the world, but in this case, it is institutionalized, and many times these checkpoints serve no other purpose but to “establish and maintain domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them..” (direct quote from the “International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid”)

Finally, one of the most obvious points of discrimination is in the inability for Palestinian Israelis to buy homes in West Jerusalem, while Jews are allowed to buy land in East Jerusalem. Land rights are incredibly discriminatory, if not on paper, at least in practice. When was the last time you heard of a Jewish home being demolished or evicted by the Israeli authorities?

Is this Apartheid as it was in South Africa? Perhaps not exactly, but there is no crime that is exactly the same. The real point is, it has South African Apartheid qualities, and there is nothing wrong in calling a “spade a spade” as joe mentioned.