Mo-ha-med wrote two long interesting posts about “debunking Israeli arguments”. First part is here and the second part is here.
There were so many things he’s written there that I see as wrong, I was all set and ready to write a long post debunking his post. Then I read his disclaimer here where he says:
No, I really really don’t like Hamas. And I am unwilling to forgive them for shooting an Egyptian officer, Yasser Eisawy, last week, for killing two Egyptian soldiers when they blew up the fence last January, for killing those two two girls by mistake also last week, for shooting indiscriminately at Israeli civilians, for engaging in a goddamn civil war with their brethren, for stopping wounded Palestinians from seeking treatment in Egypt, and yes, for being so ****** dumb enough to piss off Israel when they know very well they are no match to them when Israel would, unavoidably, hit back heavily.
And just for the more balanced view, he certainly does also say this:
But I very much disagree with Israel’s actions in this war, which I believe is unjustified, indefensible, and overall a really, really bad idea. I challenge the Israeli version of the facts and the ‘official’ reasoning behind the war. I think the arguments are bogus, I think that nothing good will come out of this war, and no, I do not forgive Israel for starving and killing the Gazans either.
I did leave out the bits about removing certain parts of the male genitalia of leaders from both sides and the suggested recipe for those ingridients :p
Anyway, this, along with my exchange of comments with an Egyptian father posting as bouhamza and especially this comment, made me think.
I suspect that both Mo-ha-med and bouhamza are actually the kind of people I could easily find a lot of common ground with. Don’t get me wrong – we disagree on a lot of things. I could go on with answers to most of Mo-ha-med’s arguments, but I think there is something deeper here.
I think that during times of war, we all tend to paint the “other side” with one color – usually black, making our own side more white. We pick on statements and sentiments expressed by the extremists and attribute them to “Israel” or to “the Palestinians”. In effect, both nations are a bit more complex than that. I think and hope I am the kind of Israeli that tries to see more shades and colors, rather than live in a black and white world picture.
I sometimes feel grateful that many people reading my blog don’t read Hebrew and don’t see the shameless comments in the Israeli online press to articles about the war. Definitely, some Israelis are war-hungry and show no sense of mercy. They have their excuses. I am sure Hamas extremists have their own excuses for their version of hatred. The symmetry between Israelis and Palestinians is sometimes scary (and I know most Israelis would hate me for comparing the two people – I do believe we’re much more alike than either side is willing to admit).
I’ll end with a short story. Almost two years ago, I had the pleasure of having Khaled Diab as our guest here in Israel. While touring Israel and the territories, Khaled spent several days with me and my family. Khaled is an awesome guy and we’ve had a great time together, but our political talks were certainly loaded.
Now, I do believe that both Khaled and myself are what he eloquently calls “peace mongeres”. Like IsraeliDad says, if it was down to Klaled and us to solve the Arab-Israeli conflict, we would have signed the papers that evening. I do actually think that getting to know people on a persona level and trusting them has a lot to do with that btw.
Anyway, what I want to tell you is this. Our debates with Khaled were often about history. We couldn’t believe what a totally different grasp of history we have. We disagreed on facts and most certainly on their meaning – about pretty much every event that happened. 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973… and every event till today. I don’t think there was a single event where we agreed on the analysis.
My point is this. From that encounter I learned one important thing. We have different narratives. Very different. We can go on arguing and slinging mud about each other’s interpretations, calling them lies and myths. Hey, I admit, it’s sometimes feels good, knowing that I’m in the right 
It won’t get us anywhere either.
We need to learn to respect that the other side has a different narrative, and still be able to work together on solutions. I don’t think anyone should embrace the other side’s narrative either. Narratives are important, and we each need our own as part of our identity. We just shouldn’t be holding our own narrative so close to our eyes as to block us from seeing the other side.
on Jan 5th, 2009 at 7:30 am
There is something odd and slightly.. disconcerting about being quoted, somehow.
I am quite flattered that you took the time to read my entries – the profuseness of which (gosh, the comments!) represent less an ideological position than a need… to vent, really. Blogging as therapy. Doesn’t work as well as I thought, though.
I do think we’d have a lot in common. And I surely would’ve enjoyed meeting you during my time in Israel last year. (because 2008 is already “last year”!)
War is seldom a time to make friends… But I can assure one thing: we disagree on fewer things that you think we do.
Allow me to add to your observation regarding narratives – to which I fully agree – regarding when happens when these narratives come under fire. People have a tendency to go in ‘lock-up/defense mode’ and will defend things they would, in normal times, admit they have little belief in, because they hate being proven wrong. (especially by the ‘other’!). I’ve had the occasion to observe others, and myself, engage in such behaviour in heated conversations. It’s quite hilarious when you subsequently realise it.
I, too, disagree with good segments of your comments about the war, its justifications, its purpose…
But right now, all I really want is for this madness to end as soon as possible!
One more thing we agree upon? Maybe?
It’s a white day in Paris. I hope you’re well.
mohamed.
Mo-ha-meds last blog post..Just so we’re very clear: on Hamas
on Jan 6th, 2009 at 1:45 am
Based on what you believe you can sign peace treatIES with that Arab who called diab? based on his selected talk? on his double faces and standards? on his hypocrisy?
does because he show differ mean he is honest?
i live INSIDE Arabs and know well there is a big differences between their talk and their act, between their love and their hate and between their real and their pretending?
I want to tell you something for sure you won’t understand now but you will understand one day when you lose one of your kids or both: the only tool will bring peace with Arabs is war, only war, and remember my words well cuz it’s the outcome of 1400 years living among Arabs as a minority.
An Egyptians last blog post..public demonstrations demanding the release of journalist montazer elzaidi – مظاهرات شعبية تدعم الهجوم بالحذاء على بوش
on Jan 6th, 2009 at 2:35 am
Are you Coptic then? I thought Egyptian Coptics were Arabs? Not that I know much about them, other that they are Christians. In Israel, at least, you can be an Arab and a Christian at the same time.
on Jan 6th, 2009 at 3:43 am
Mo-ha-med, I share your your attempts at blogging as therapy. In my humble experience during the Lebanon war of 2006, during which I started the IsraeliMom blog on blogspot, I’m not so sure it’s effective therapy
If anything, after a while, I just couldn’t take the attacks and harsh comments (see an Egyptian above, suggesting to send me “back” to Hitler’s ovens and that I need to have my sons killed in order to understand his point of view. For him, I am not pro-Israeli enough, for others I am way too much of that. I guess you can’t make everyone happy!
I am blogging on the war right now, yes, almost as therapy. Trying to do something while my husband is away for so long. I strongly suspect that I’ll need a long break from blogging about politics once this is over – I tend to OD on the stuff after a while
I’ll send you an email – you got me curious now, about your visit to Israel – and hopefully if and when you visit again, we could meet, after the war, inshalla. You have an open invitation here!
on Jan 6th, 2009 at 4:16 am
iam Coptic and in the Islamic language Iam a “dhimmi”.
you have a good memories to share with your friends the Arabs because they are a minority in your country, they are not taiking control of things and you are not dhimmis, that’s why they lie.
There is Arabs who are Christians but who told ya this mean Copts are Arabs?!!!
Google the term “copts”.
i don’t wish your kids to die cuz they are not leftists, they are not cancer at least for now, i just said your point of views kinda immature and only tragic experiences makes us grow up!
An Egyptians last blog post..public demonstrations demanding the release of journalist montazer elzaidi – مظاهرات شعبية تدعم الهجوم بالحذاء على بوش
on Jan 6th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
An Egyptian is what we call a “blog-troll” and he is also maybe not the most well-read of christian egyptians.
Here’s a crash course:
In proper Arabic (classical) ‘Arab ( عرب ) is someone from the Hijaz or the Najd or Yemen. Egypt, Sham or Maghrib etc. were not called ‘Arab lands. This is first point.
Second, TODAY, arab denotes anyone who’s from an arabic-speaking teritory. That’s why Sudan and Somalia are in the arab league but turkey and Iran are not. It has nothing to do with religion nor ethnicity.
Read a book will you!
PS you’re not a dhimmi because Egypt is nowadays a secular state.DS
bouhamzas last blog post..Fiih Eh ya Ra’is???